Transcript

Derek Smith:

Hello and welcome to Baylor Connections, a conversation series with the people shaping our future. Each week we go in-depth with Baylor leaders, professors, and more, discussing important topics in higher education, research, and student life. I'm Derek Smith, and today we are talking faith and sports with Paul Putz. Dr. Putz serves as the assistant director of the Faith & Sports Institute at Baylor's George W. Truett Theological Seminary, where he helps lead and develop online programming and curriculum as well as assisting with communications and strategic planning. The Faith & Sports Institute launched in 2021 is a team of athletes, coaches, chaplains, and scholars who provide theological education, research, and formative practices for Christian leaders in sports. Putz's research focuses on the intersection of sports and Christianity, and he's currently at work on his first book, The Spirit of the Game: American Protestants, Big-Time Sports, and the Contest for National Identity. His work has appeared in a variety of media outlets including Christianity Today, Sports Illustrated, and NPR, and he is with us today on the program. Paul, thanks so much for joining us. It's great to have you here today.

Paul Putz:

Thanks, Derek. Really glad to be with you.

Derek Smith:

Well, faith and sports is a topic that I find really interesting and Baylor is a great place to discuss that, so I'm excited to dive in with you. Now, I think a lot of people might look at this and say, "Wow, what an interesting job you have." I'm curious if we looked back, if we saw you as a child or a younger man, would we have seen breadcrumbs or signs pointing to the fact that you might have a job like this someday?

Paul Putz:

There probably were some hints, I think. I'm a pastor's kid, so there's the faith side of it, makes sense that maybe I do something related to that. I love sports, so I'm playing all the sports growing up too, and passionate about that. And so I think those two things combining make sense. But I was also a first-gen college student. No one in my family had done more than junior college before I went and got a college degree. And so I don't think I even had it modeled that you can do this sort of work in higher education. I didn't really know what higher education was growing up. So I think there were some seeds, definitely some crumbs, but it really wasn't until I got my college degree, started teaching high school that I began to think, "Hey, you can actually do some teaching in college too. Maybe my path is to get into higher education."

Derek Smith:

So you grew up in a small town Nebraska, you played sports, went to a small school to play basketball in Omaha. How formative was the role of sports in just kind of your path, not even necessarily faith and sports now, but just the path that you ended up taking?

Paul Putz:

Oh, it was huge, and faith was a part of that too. So Fellowship of Christian Athletes was a big part of my formation growing up. My basketball coach was an FCA mentor in high school as well, and probably one of the most important people shaping how I understood life. And I think I wouldn't have said it this way back then, but when I reflect now, I can see that sports was forming and shaping me to become a certain type of person, I think instilling work ethic and discipline. Even when I went and got my Ph.D., I mean it was this drive to practice basketball, I think that helped me develop the skills to stick with it when you're pursuing that. And at the same time, it built relationships and connections, built a sense of confidence. So in many ways, I think who I am today can't be separated from playing basketball, playing other sports growing up, and I think that's something that a lot of people experience too.

Derek Smith:

Visiting with Paul Putz. And Paul, want to take a look at your path to Baylor here real quick before we really dive into your work. What attracted you here? When did you find out about this Faith & Sports Institute and what made you want to be a part of it?

Paul Putz:

Two Baylor stories is what I have. Starts in 2013 when I come down to Waco to do a Ph.D. in history. At the time, I'm a high school teacher in Omaha, Nebraska, married. We have our first kid, her name is Layton. She is like one year old. And in 2013, Bethany and I moved down to Waco for me to pursue this Ph.D. in history. And at the time, I wasn't exactly sure what to do, but I knew I wanted to do something related to sports and Christianity. And so I spent five years doing this dissertation research on the connections between sports and Christianity in American culture. During that time, I'm in the history department, which is awesome. They have great scholars doing American religion, but they didn't have anyone doing sports. And so when you do a dissertation, you develop a committee and you get some experts to make sure that you're not making stuff up, that it is up to par, all of that. And I wanted someone at Baylor who knew sports well. So I looked around campus and one of the people who studied sports was John White, who was the professor of Sports Ministry at Truett Seminary. And so I invited him to be on my dissertation committee, and that was really the first time that I noticed that there's some Sports Ministry Programs happening at a seminary, which is something that I just didn't knew existed. So that's 2013 to 2018, I'm still doing my history thing. I'm not really doing a lot with Truett Seminary, but I began to realize that there is this space for sports. I ended up getting a job at Messiah College in 2018. So I spend a year, I'm a history professor, I'm teaching undergraduates. And then in 2019, a position opened up to come back to Baylor and to serve as an assistant director of the Sports Ministry Program. I had never envisioned a career path where I could work at a seminary where I could take my training in history and connect it with ministry life with theological education. But when I began to think about those possibilities, I got really excited about it. So I applied in 2019 and came down here to take what was then the Sports Ministry Program and to build it out into what is now the Faith & Sports Institute.

Derek Smith:

So for you, as you saw that there could be a career path in faith and sports, what were the aspects of that that most interested you? Is it just anything related to faith and sports or were there kind of strings that if we tugged on would kind of... early on there kind of would unfold the whole part of what kind of drew to this in the first place?

Paul Putz:

I definitely think there's some childhood stuff. Even sports history was big for me growing up. I loved reading books about the great players and the history of the NFL. I remember one of the first gifts that I was given that I just had for a long time was this 75-year history of the NFL. They were commemorating 75 years. I would've gotten it in 1995. And I read that book cover to cover. I was just fascinated by the stories of people who played these sports that I loved. And so that interest definitely was a part of driving what I would want to do later on. I think the faith element then comes into my own story being a pastor's kid with Christianity being so important to how I saw myself. So in a lot of ways what I get to do is to explore my own background through history, kind of understanding how is it that we've created these institutions and organizations and practices to help Christians in sports become formed in their faith. For me, I'm just a curious person. I want to know the background behind things. I want to know the history behind things. And so it was natural for me to say, I know Christianity has shaped my sports experience. Where did those ideas come from? Where did those groups come from? Let me look into this history and then let me see if that can be helpful for other people to have a sense of where they are right now.

Derek Smith:

Visiting with Paul Putz from Baylor's Faith & Sports Institute. And if we were to get a kind of a 101 on the Faith & Sports Institute, if we were to sit in on different classes over the course of a week, what are some of the topics we might see discussed or some of the settings we might find ourselves in?

Paul Putz:

Yeah, well, it would depend on where you're coming from. One of the great things about the Faith & Sports Institute is that we have programs to meet different learner needs and different constituencies. So just to give you kind of a big-picture view. At this core, FSI is a place where we're trying to form and shape Christian leaders in sports through theological education, through practical resources, through compelling research. So we're doing those things, but in some cases, we're doing that through graduate courses. That's really the heart of what we do at Truett Seminary. We have a graduate program for residential students, and then we have an online graduate program. Students in those graduate programs, they're taking classes on theological ethics of sports, they're taking classes on faith and sport integration. So they're actually developing practical ways to bring Christian faith into this sphere of sports. They're taking classes on the history of sports and Christianity. We go all the way back to the New Testament and then we trace out how Christians have engaged with sports for 2000 years. So they're getting a look at sports from Christian theological perspectives from different disciplines. And then there's also a focus on, well, how does this matter practically? How can we take what is being learned and actually apply it in the context of sports? That's at the graduate level. We also have a high school retreat. So we have something for high school athletes. In fact, it's going to be happening in June, so it's happening here soon this summer. And high school athletes are being taught practical ways to connect faith with their sports experience. We also have an online certificate program, which is for adult learners who maybe they don't want seminary education, the degree program, but they want resource and training on specific topics like theology, mental health, or leadership. And so people in those programs can enroll online and they'll get a flexible and adaptable course where they get a little bit of the training that we can provide. So really we're trying to reach many people. We're trying to reach leaders and future leaders who are engaged in sports, and we're really trying to help them become formed and shaped and equip them so they can go back into their spaces wherever it is, and apply what they're learning into the field of sports.

Derek Smith:

Now, is that online program you mentioned, is that the one you direct?

Paul Putz:

That's right, yes. So we have a Master of Arts in Theology and Sports Studies, brand new online degree just started in the fall of 2022. I've been just happy with the group that we have together. We have a small cohort of students. We try to get around eight coming in each fall. They are from different areas of sports, so we've got athletic directors, coaches, we also have sports ministry, sports chaplain staff members who across the United States are gathering with some online Zoom sessions, but then also engaging in graduate-level work throughout the week, and then coming together really as a learning community of people who have experience, who have wisdom, who have something to offer, but who also have the humility to keep learning and growing. So it's been a lot of fun for me to lead that program, put some of the classes together, and then just to get to know the students and to be a part of their lives. It's been a thrill.

Derek Smith:

Paul, for you, I'm curious, not to put too many words in your mouth, but you and I both went to small Christian schools for undergrad and came here to Baylor, both sports fans. What's unique to you about being at Baylor for this? Because I know there's really not a lot like this out there.

Paul Putz:

Yeah, I mean there's a number of things. Resources matter, that's one thing. I think attention, then Baylor name opens doors that other places aren't necessarily going to open. I think it's a unique combination of not being afraid to ask questions too. I think the research side of Baylor, being an R1 institution is very appealing to me. As a historian, I need to be able to go and study the past. I need to ask hard questions. I need to go where the evidence takes me, and Baylor gives us the freedom to operate unambiguously Christian, to bring our faith into what we do, but then to do serious academic research. That's something that not every Christian school is going to allow you to do. And so Baylor does allow us to do that. We have the serious academics, we have the Christian commitments, and then we have a high-level commitment to sports too. I played at a small Christian school, it was nothing like what Baylor athletes are going through with the pressures and the attention, and the skill level. And so all of those make Baylor unique. There's unique opportunities, unique challenges, but I really think it's important that a place like Baylor exists.

Derek Smith:

This is Baylor Connections. We are visiting with Paul Putz, assistant director of the Faith & Sports Institute in Baylor's George W. Truett Theological Seminary. And Paul, we can kind of hopscotch a little bit around some topics related to faith and sports here. And I'm curious, it is very common to hear sports imagery used in context of faith and vice versa. Are there lenses that really are kind of key hallmarks for how you approach the way that you study faith and sports?

Paul Putz:

So when I look at sports, I'm coming to it on the one hand, someone who is a Christian, someone who loves sports, is interested in it. And so there is a personal aspect to watching sports and making sense of it. On the other hand, I'm a historian and so I have this academic training to try to consider how connections with the past shape the present. So when I'm looking at faith and sports, a lot of times I'm trying to figure out what are the histories behind things that we sort of take for granted now. How did we get to this place? I'm always asking questions about how did we get here. Even if it's just a simple phrase like, I play for an audience of one, or a phrase like I'd like to thank my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, or an action like kneeling in the end zone after a touchdown, I'm interested in who did that first. Why did they do it? Where did these ideas come from, this practice come from? What was the history behind that? And I think there's that curiosity for me because I really believe as human beings we're related to one another in a chronological sense. The beauty of what I think the Christian story of the world is that we have this beginning point and we believe this endpoint in the future, and in between human beings are building on what's come before us. We rely on this community of believers across time and space, this community of human beings. And so when I'm looking at faith and sports, I'm trying to figure out how are Christians today doing things that are actually dependent on and reliant on what people before them came. People we may never know, people who we've forgotten, and yet their work matters. So in a sense, it's trying to honor the past, understand the past, and then figure out how that connects with the present.

Derek Smith:

You gave some examples, it's common to hear things, maybe almost trivial or a line in an interview, a athlete mentioning their faith after a win, things that are really meaningful. You hear stories about Branch Rickey and Jackie Robinson's faith that changed the world. For you, is it that entire spectrum of topics that fascinate you?

Paul Putz:

Absolutely, yeah. A lot of times I'll try to look at maybe something that's really well-known in history and to try to say where was Christianity present here. And the Branch Rickey, Jackie Robinson example, I think that's a great example because this is a story that's shaped by two Christian stories, Jackie Robinson's Christian faith, Branch Rickey's Christian faith. And at the same time, it's also shaped by Christian story of some Christians who resisted that. And so when I'm looking at the past, I'm trying to figure out the whole complexity of what Christians are doing and the different ways that we understand Christian engagement. I don't want to paint a pretty picture as if everything was always perfect and Christians have done everything right. No, we need to be honest about who we are as a people, as a community, and what's happened in the past. And at the same time, I think the beautiful thing about going back and looking at history is that we're going to find examples of Christians standing up in the case of Jackie Robinson and Branch Rickey for justice, for we see his biblical values. As a historian, I'm also trying to put that in context. So I'm trying to figure out what was going on at the time culturally within American society that is shaping and providing opportunities for something like a Jackie Robinson, Branch Rickey moment to happen. And so part of my work is kind of going into the organizations that they were a part of, trying to study the ideas that are forming and shaping someone like Branch Rickey or like Jackie Robinson and putting that together. And what's fascinating with Jackie Robinson, for example, his story traces to Waco, Texas, which is pretty remarkable. So as I was trying to figure out where does Jackie Robinson's Christian faith come from? He is mentored by a pastor named Karl Downs. Karl Downs meets Jackie Robinson in Pasadena, California, and becomes a father figure to him, changes his life. Downs is a Methodist minister, and he actually graduated from high school in Waco, Texas.

Derek Smith:

Oh, really?

Paul Putz:

More high school in Waco, Texas. Now, this is at a time when, unfortunately, segregation is the norm. Karl Downs couldn't have gone to Baylor back then. But he was someone who moves on outside of Waco, attends some HBCUs, gets theological training, connects with Jackie Robinson in Pasadena, California, changes his life, and becomes really the most important religious figure, bringing Jackie Robinson into the faith and helping him form a full Christian worldview on life. And so when I studied that and began to realize some of those connections too, to me that's fascinating. That's a story we should know here in Waco, Texas, someone like Karl Downs. It wasn't just Jackie Robinson changing the world, it's the person behind those people changing the world that I try to look at.

Derek Smith:

That's fascinating. Learned something new today as we visited with Paul Putz here on Baylor Connections. I want to talk about another historical figure who sports fans certainly know and maybe even non-sports fans as well, James Naismith, the inventor of basketball. You're a basketball player yourself, and quite a story there. So when did you first become interested in the origins of the game of basketball and James Naismith's faith and its impact on that?

Paul Putz:

I think the first time I really learned about the Christian roots of basketball, it was actually from someone who is now a Baylor professor. Elesha Coffman, she's a Baylor history professor, and she used to be a journalist working... She worked at this magazine called Christian History. And I remember I was probably back in college undergrad and there was a story about James Naismith and the Christian roots of basketball, just a short story in this magazine. And I think that was probably the first time that I kind of put these together. I was like, "That's really interesting. This game that I love doesn't exist really without Christian institutions." I filed that away. At the time, I wasn't a historian, but it was just fascinating. When I started my dissertation research and book project, I'm studying sports and Christianity, and so obviously, I'm looking at basketball, but I also wanted to kind of go to the sources myself. So I've often heard people say things... James Naismith's famous quote that he wants to "win men for the Master through the gym." You hear lots of Christians who might bring this up and they talk about this as kind of a source of pride. As Christians, we can feel pride that James Naismith is one of us and he starts basketball. And I wanted to figure out what were the other ideas going on. Did James Naismith actually say that quote? What was the context in which he said it? And what were the other sources I can look at to figure out what Naismith's real vision for basketball was? And so driven by my history work and just my own curiosity, I went and read the sources as much as I could, whatever Naismith said about basketball, whatever other people said about those origins. I really just spent time going back and looking at that. In my first book project, I only have a little bit on basketball. It ends up focusing more on the 1920s into the present. But I did so much research on it that I ended up taking some of that work and it'll probably actually be a foundation for my next book project. And trying to figure out, what can I do with this? What can I do related to basketball specifically that can connect this history with what Christians are doing today? And that was the genesis of a Truett Seminary chapel talk that I gave. It's also been the genesis of some blog posts I've written and some other things, really just trying to trace out these Christian connections with basketball.

Derek Smith:

And it's led to connections with his family, correct?

Paul Putz:

Yeah. Remarkably, yeah. This is probably the highlight of my spring semester. I gave this Truett Seminary chapel talk, called it Jesus in James Naismith, and somehow a member of the Naismith family saw it online. It was actually one of the great-great-grandsons. So Shawn emails me and says, "Hey, I heard your chapel talk. I really liked it. I've shared it with the family." And then Shawn puts me in touch with Jim Naismith, who's the last living grandson of James Naismith. Jim and his wife Beverly live in Corpus Christi, Texas. And they've lived there pretty much their whole lives. So they are Texans, they're not that far away. We just started talking and we clicked right away. One thing leads to another, Jim and Beverly came and visited Baylor. They were really interested in the sports program that we have, the Faith & Sports Institute because James Naismith had been a seminary graduate. Before he creates basketball, he is theologically trained, and he really saw basketball as a form of Christian ministry. So for Jim and Beverly, they just came up for a visit. They got to meet with Scott Drew, they got to meet with Baylor Athletics folks. They met with Todd Still the Truett dean. And there's another fascinating kind of serendipitous connection. David Garland, who is recently retired Truett Seminary professor. Back in 2008 or 2009, David Garland was the dean of Truett Seminary and he was instrumental in launching the Sports Ministry Program that became the Faith & Sports Institute. He sort of cast vision for it, helped to raise money for this. Well, David Garland's grandfather was a classmate with James Naismith in-

Derek Smith:

No way.

Paul Putz:

... Springfield College in 1891. The very year that Naismith makes basketball, you have David Garland, this Truett Seminary professor who has literal connections all the way back. And so David and I, we had exchanged some emails about this, and so I invited David to come and just meet Jim and Beverly and we got pictures and they swapped stories and looked at a picture actually that had James Naismith next to Albert Garland, who is David's grandfather. And then we did another picture of David Garland next to Jim Naismith in 2023. So those connections were really fun. And also just to know that what we're doing at Baylor, being a Christian institution, taking sports seriously, taking faith seriously, and academic seriously, all of that stuff James Naismith was about to.

Derek Smith:

Visiting with Paul Putz here on Baylor Connections. And Paul, I'd love to ask you more about that, but I know we're kind of running into the final few minutes here and I want to ask you about your book, The Spirit of the Game: American Protestants, Big-Time Sports, and the Contest for National Identity. If we were pouring through an advanced copy of the book, what are some of the topics we might find?

Paul Putz:

So really what I'm trying to do, I'm trying to tell the story of a group of people who changed the ways that Christians engage with sports. You'll get to learn about how organizations like the Fellowship of Christian Athletes or Athletes in Action were formed. Baylor makes an appearance in there at several points. There are key leaders connected to Baylor, including Bill Glass, the All-American defensive lineman from back in the 1950s, he's a central figure in it. But you'll learn how these individuals in these organizations work together to create spaces in sports where Christianity is encouraged and promoted. At the same time, you're going to learn a little bit about American religion, the landscape of religion. I really use sport as a lens into understanding American Christianity and some of those changes. And then the last thing I think you'll get is you'll get a sense of American identity. You'll get a sense of the different ways that different American groups understand themselves. It's really a book that's about pluralism and belonging and the spaces we share together and how sports is a space where religious values can be promoted and encouraged. But there's always the question of how do we make space for different religious groups, different religious perspectives, to have a space as well. So I try to be empathetic with a critical eye. I try to tell a story that is true to the sources and that honors the people who have done this work, while in the same time making it relatable. So even though it is an academic book, something that I hope that people who aren't academics can pick up and benefit from as well.

Derek Smith:

Is that 2024 when that's coming out?

Paul Putz:

2024 is the hope, yeah. It should be towards the end of 2024.

Derek Smith:

All right. Some of those topics will be really fascinating about culture and identity. To dive into a little more, maybe when the book comes out, we'll have to bring you back on here and discuss that when the time comes.

Paul Putz:

Let's do it.

Derek Smith:

Yeah. Well, Paul, as we wind down, what's ahead for Faith & Sports Institute? Anything on the horizon about which you're particularly excited and as we look ahead from summer 2023?

Paul Putz:

Yeah. So right now in June, we have our high school retreat, which is happening, and that's always exciting. We've got young athletes in the Waco area and some from outside the state who come to Baylor's campus, and they connect with mentors and they're learning how to integrate faith and sports, and that's really encouraging. We have our next cohort of the online Master of Arts in Theology and Sports Studies. We'll be starting this fall. I'm always excited to get a new group of students in. Our residential program as well, we have students coming in to start in the fall doing that work. I'm excited about our students more than anything. We've got great group of students who are doing good work. And at the end of the day with the Faith & Sports Institute, we are about equipping leaders and future leaders. So we are not the ones who are going out there and necessarily changing the world and changing the people and culture of sports, but we're trying to train the people who will do that. We're trying to be a resource and a support and really connect with what Baylor's vision should be about, which is: Hey, we are this unique space where we have some resources and we have this R1 status, and we have these Power Five athletics, and we have this Christian identity. Let's steward those resources for the good of the world. Let's make sure that we're serving people with whatever we do. And so whether it's Baylor, Truett, FSI, and my own work, I think the whole goal is: Let me come alongside people and let me help them become better versions of themselves and unleash their potential to change the world.

Derek Smith:

Well, that's exciting. We appreciate the work you're doing, and I look forward to seeing the continued fruit of that. We appreciate you taking the time to join us today.

Paul Putz:

Oh, thanks so much. It's been fun.

Derek Smith:

Great to have you here. Thanks very much. Paul Putz, assistant director of the Faith & Sports Institute at Truett Seminary, our guest today on Baylor Connections. I'm Derek Smith. A reminder, you can hear this and other programs online, baylor.edu/connections, and you can subscribe on iTunes. Thanks for joining us here on Baylor Connections.