Transcript

Derek Smith:

Hello, and welcome to Baylor Connections, a conversation series with the people shaping our future. Each week, we go in-depth with Baylor leaders, professors, and more discussing important topics in higher education, research, and student life. I'm Derek Smith, and our guest today is the first gent of Baylor University, Brad Livingstone. In addition to being Baylor's first gent, he is a longtime educator, world war II expert, prayer warrior, and more. A graduate of Oklahoma State University and former basketball player for the Cowboys, it was there that he met Baylor University president, Dr. Linda Livingstone. They will celebrate their 37th anniversary this September. He teaches history at Waco's Vanguard College Preparatory School, where he continues a long tradition of introducing his students to veterans of wars, from World War II to the Vietnam War and more. He is with us here today on Baylor Connections. Brad Livingstone, thanks so much for joining us. It's great to have you here on the program.

Brad Livingstone:

Well, thank you Derek. It's a blessing and a joy to be here today.

Derek Smith:

Well, it's in the midst ... as we visit in the midst of a strange summer, and everyone's getting used to this new normal, or trying to find ways to stay entertained in the middle of all of this. With that, amidst the busyness, we've seen some fun videos on Baylor's social media of you, of president Livingstone, your daughter, Shelby, and we've heard stories. Looks like you're a pretty competitive family. We've seen that in ping pong and some other ways online. What have been some of the most fun ways that you all, as a family, have stayed and played active during COVID-19?

Brad Livingstone:

Well, there ... as you know, all three of us grew up in sports. We're all three division one athletes and then the competitive fire is definitely prevalent in the Livingstone family. So none of us want to lose at anything. It doesn't matter what it is. So, we're very competitive. We do keep it in parameters that "Hey, we're family," but bragging rights are always a good thing here in the Livingstone family. So, as this shutdown and pandemic started, Shelby introduced us to something I'd never heard of before called TikTok, and evidently that was big, especially among the youngsters. Shelby is the mastermind behind all of the videos, behind the TikToks, and behind any postings. We were just trying to think of ways to, number one, have fun during this time, but also to kind of uplift the spirits of the Baylor family. So, with ping pong, in fact, we ... Shelby is becoming a very, very good ping pong player. In fact, we played at least a couple times every day and she is bound and determined. I've been playing my whole life, so I have a little bit of an advantage over her, but she is getting better every day and she said that it's not going to be long before she beats her dad in ping pong. I have no doubt that that won't happen someday, but it didn't happen today.

Derek Smith:

Well, that's good. Good. Congratulations. Now, the thing is, I assume that when she does, the whole Baylor family will know because it'll be on her social media app or TikTok. So I want to run down a ... kind of put you on the spot here. Who is the best in your family? In the Livingstone family? Okay?

Brad Livingstone:

All right.

Derek Smith:

All right, we have the sport that you were playing when you met President Livingstone, basketball.

Brad Livingstone:

A ll right, well, basketball. The story that ... and again, it's a true story. As far as basketball is concerned ... and again, we have to take this in the parameters that it happened when we were both at Oklahoma State University. The women typically practiced before the men, and there would be about a 30 minute gap between the two practices. Linda and I got to know each other when we were freshman at Oklahoma State, not necessarily because of basketball. That came later, but we were both involved in the Fellowship of Christian Athletes, so OSU had a very strong chapter there and we were both part of that, but also, before I even knew who Linda Livingstone ... or Linda Parrack was her maiden name. Before I knew who Linda was, my dad, my very first week as a freshman at Oklahoma State, sent me a letter and it had an article of Linda Livingstone in it. Linda had been mentioned in an OSU publication about an outstanding freshman and OSU's so excited that she's a part of it because she's a brilliant student and an athlete and all that. My dad didn't know who Linda was. I didn't know who Linda was, but my dad cut that out of the magazine and sent it to me and said, "Brad, these are the types of girls you need to start dating." Then of course I met Linda about a week later at FCA and she was amazing person, but we were friends really for the first two years at Oklahoma State. We were just good friends, but in between ... Getting back to the practices ... In between the women's practice ending and ours beginning, in that 30 minute timeframe, not every day, but many days, we would actually play the game of Horse. You shoot a basket and if you make it, the other person has to repeat or they get a letter. We did that for four years while we were playing basketball at Oklahoma State, and I never once beat her, never once.

Derek Smith:

Wow.

Brad Livingstone:

It used to just ... oh, it just burned me. Now, there were some shots that were not allowed. No dunking. For four years, she ... a lot of people don't know this, but her senior year at Oklahoma State University, they had an all star game after the season was over. Senior year, she was awarded the most valuable women's basketball player at the collegiate level in the entire state of Oklahoma, senior year.

Derek Smith:

Wow.

Brad Livingstone:

She was amazing ... an amazing athlete and really good. So, to answer your question, as far as basketball is concerned, I would have to say, given the accolades that she received while she was playing at Oklahoma State, she definitely was better basketball player than me at that level. Now, if we went out right now and played, I would absolutely destroy her.

Derek Smith:

Okay.

Brad Livingstone:

She would probably refute that, what I just said, too.

Derek Smith:

Sure. We'll have to ask her about it.

Brad Livingstone:

As far as volleyball, Shelby would destroy both Linda and myself. No question about it. She's an amazing volleyball player. So, we're really thankful that she's actually been able to continue in the volleyball arena while she's going to seminary at Truett Seminary here at Baylor. She's a volunteer assistant coach with the Baylor Bear volleyball team here. So she is really enjoying that as well.

Derek Smith:

Visiting with Baylor University's first gent, Brad Livingstone, here on Baylor Connections. Brad, you told that great story about your dad sending you that article. Of course, the article tells ... with a picture of President Livingstone saying, "These are the kinds of girls you should date" proved prophetic. What was his reaction when you told him that you were indeed dating and later on when you were going to get married?

Brad Livingstone:

Well, that's a great question, Derek. When I ... to be honest, when he wrote that letter, I looked at it and I put it away. I saw Linda in one of the classroom buildings maybe a month later and I told her about my dad's letter. We barely knew each other. We'd only met each other a couple of times. She told me later that she thought that was the most unusual and weirdest pickup line she'd ever heard, but we put it aside. I actually forgot about it. My dad even forgot about it. Then, when I was moving out of my dorm room ... I lived in the same dorm room for four years. When I was moving out, I found that letter. It was right before the summer and so I put it in some box, but then when I proposed, I didn't propose to Linda until the next year. I found it again and I told my dad. We told the pastor who was going to marry us. He actually put it in the vows, that story in the vows, but I told my dad, and you got to know my dad. He was all American basketball player from Wyoming and played in the NBA and not real emotional, your typical dad from the World War II era. When I told him that, he just looked at me as serious as all get out and says, "Yes, I'm quite prophetic, aren't I?" That was pretty much it, but we've always enjoyed telling that story because it was a great beginning.

Derek Smith:

I'm curious, what qualities about her have you most appreciated over those 37 years of marriage, and probably around 40 years now that you've known her?

Brad Livingstone:

Some of the things, to answer your question, the qualities of Linda, number one is how godly she is. Now, she's too modest to be able to share these things with anybody, but she is the most godly person I know on planet earth. Her relationship with Jesus Christ is her priority and everything revolves around that. That has not changed since the day I met her. She's the smartest person I've I've ever met in my entire life, but what I really love is that that doesn't really interfere with her relationships with pretty much everyone. Anybody that knows Linda, has been around her for awhile, not only is she a great leader, but she really brings out the best in other people and she definitely has done that with me. I'm a far better person now because of Linda than the person she met 40 years ago, but also, especially right now, and this is something that God has really instilled in her over the decades is that she handles pressure very well. Leadership is ... Good quality leadership is much needed and appreciated right now and I think God has prepared her for situations like this, where it's not just one thing. It's multiple things at the same time, while still running a university, and she handles pressure. I tell people, she has this unique ability to be able to process five or six or more things all at once, and be able to compartmentalize and come up with solutions and get people to use their strengths to solve them as well. So, and I'm still amazed, even though I've seen it now for well over 30 years.

Derek Smith:

She sung your praises as well, and in particular, as it relates to your support of the family and her leadership here at Baylor and the people you're around as being a prayer warrior, that's a term I've heard her use multiple times. What, what does that term mean to you?

Brad Livingstone:

Yeah, I grew up in the church, but it wasn't until I was in high school when my basketball coach shared with me that God really wants me to know him and he wants a personal relationship with ... me to have a personal relationship with him, and so it was really through FCA. It was through my church then that I really started understanding the importance of prayer, and it's important to do that every day. So it really instilled in me, and then I was able to be a summer camp counselor at a Christian sports camp called Kanakuk in Missouri, and it really solidified my walk with Christ. So the church, FCA, and my church and FCA and Kanakuk really helped solidify my walk with Christ. All three of those really stressed the importance of a daily quiet time with God, where you start the morning in prayer, you start the morning in the word of God, and you listen. You listen to God. So I started that as a young man and as a teenager. What it does is it really helps you understand and kind of see the big picture, especially when you're in the trenches and having to deal with issues from day in and day out or daily issues or whatever they may be. So, the prayer warrior part is ...One thing that I've really been able to see, and this was from day one, when Linda was named president of Baylor University, no one really knew what to call me. Linda was the very first woman president, so no one knew what to call me. So, when I would go places, they would ask me, "So, what are you going to do?" Well, I'm a high school teacher, so I would just say, Yeah, I'm a teacher," but then we came up with ... actually, Shelby helped us with this one, the first gentlemen of Baylor University. Shelby said, "That's too long. Just call yourself the first gent." So that's how that all came about, but everywhere we would go, people that we didn't even know would come up and say, "You know what? We're praying for you. We're praying for Baylor. We're praying for you," and it was palpable. I told them, I said, "Number one, we appreciate that, because we feel your prayers, and number two, keep it up, because there's a lot of work to be done" and so it's just been great. So, the title of prayer warrior is really, I think, it's not exclusive to me or any one person, but just somebody that on a daily basis goes before God and talks with God and then is able to trust him with the outcome. It's an honor to have that title. I'm really thankful to have the opportunity to pray for people too, because I've seen the power of prayer as well, and the changes that come about because of that and it's a powerful tool.

Derek Smith:

That's fantastic, as we visit with Brad Livingstone, first gent of Baylor University here on Baylor Connections. Brad, you told us the genesis of the title, first gent, and you are the first first gent in Baylor's history. What do you enjoy most about that role? How would you describe it?

Brad Livingstone:

I think one of the great things was I was really able to ... since I'm the very first first gent, I was able to write my own story. I was able to actually start the office of the first gent from scratch. Typically, some of the things that the first lady would do was ... would have functions with the spouses whenever the board of Regents would come up to town. They asked me what I wanted to do and I kept hearing, even though they did far more than this, I kept hearing that one of the things that a first lady was supposed to do was host a tea or a shopping spree or something like that. I looked at him and I said, "Well, I can guarantee that those two things will never be done by me." No way. I hate shopping, even online, and so that's never going to happen. So I told them, I'd already planned this, at least to present this. I said, "One thing I would like to do is take all the spouses and we go out to the rifle range over by the airport and shoot clay pigeons and have an annual skeet shooting contest." They all looked at me like I had just gone insane, but I'm happy to say that, had it not been for the pandemic, we would've had our third annual first gent skeet shooting contest in May. Let me tell you, you can tell you're from Texas. We had a number of people bring their own shotguns. So, for the spouses and it was ... pun intended, it was a blast. We really had a lot of fun and we're going to do it again. It's an annual event that we'll be doing again. So, but bottom line, to answer your question, as far as what do I appreciate most about the opportunity of being first gent? Again, my priority is to do whatever I can to help Linda and her presidency and her ministry here at Baylor, But I think the greatest thing that I love about being first gent is being able to make a difference. Whether that's through volunteer work with West Avenue Elementary School, where I read with kids there at the elementary school, or with being on board. I'm on the board with the vets program at Baylor that work with student veterans or veterans that are now students at Baylor, or the board of the Fellowship of Christian Athletes, or things like that that I have a real passion for and able to make a difference in. I think that's one of the greatest advantages to being the first gent. Plus, we have an opportunity to meet some incredible students and really looking forward to being able to have them back on campus, so Bu and I can walk around campus and they can love on Bu and I can see how they're doing.

Derek Smith:

Bu is the first dog, just in case anyone doesn't know, and that's B-U. Bu. That's pretty clever.

Brad Livingstone:

That's correct. Everybody thinks it's spelled B-O-O, so I have to tell them it's spelled, of course, B-U, but also, it fits another purpose. When Linda was the Dean of the business school at Pepperdine, of course Pepperdine is located in Malibu and so Shelby grew up from first grade to 12th grade in Malibu. If you live in Malibu, you don't call it Malibu, you call it the BU. So, for Shelby, it actually fits two purposes. One, Baylor University, and two, her puppy is named after the Bu.

Derek Smith:

Well, that's great. If people want to meet Bu ... I'm assuming Shelby's behind this. She has a social media account on Instagram, firstpup_bu. So if people want to follow the adventures of Bu, they can do that on Instagram. As we visit with Brad Livingstone here on Baylor Connections and Brad, I want to talk now about a topic, fascinating and particularly of interest to you in your long career as an educator, teaching students. Your classes on World War II have really become foundational, and I don't want to put words in your mouth, but I'm assuming that's really kind of the signature class of your academic career. I think part of that has been introducing students to veterans, bringing veterans in to talk to students about their experiences. So could you take us a little bit inside your interest in teaching that and how the class has grown to include veterans over the years?

Brad Livingstone:

You bet. The class, called the History of World War II, actually came about because when we were living in Waco in the '90s, a group of students came up to me and they said, "Mr. Livingstone, we want to ... we really love history and we want you to teach an elective class." I said, "Well, what are you interested in?" They said, "I don't know, how about World War II?" So over the summer I developed a curriculum and it was on June 6th, 1993, that I was watching ... June 6th is the anniversary for the DDay invasions and one of the local TV stations was interviewing a World War II vet whose name was Al Essig, who was a Sergeant in the 100 ... Oh, excuse me, the 82nd airborne and he was a paratrooper. He was also a Pathfinder, so he went in first before everybody else jumped, and they were interviewing him. I had no idea who Al Essig was at the time, and so I looked him up in the white pages and I called him and I said, "Al, you don't know me from Adam, but I heard your story and I'm developing some curriculum for a World War II class in the fall and I would like for you to come and maybe share your story with my students." So he came in the fall and immediately when he came in ... and his story is amazing. He went in, he lied about his age. He went in at 15 and fought in Sicily, in Italy, Anzio, Normandy, Operation Market Garden. He was captured by the Germans and spent five months in a German POW camp. Just an amazing story, incredible story. He lived here in Waco. I looked at my students and they were all on the edge of their seats. You could've heard a pin drop when he was talking and I realized, "Okay, we've got something here." So I actually put out an ad in the paper. I said, "If you're a World War II vet, I need you." They started coming every semester. This was a semester class. Over the decades, I've had hundreds and hundreds of World War II vets that have come in and shared with thousands of students and it's been life changing. So I've had hundreds and hundreds of these veterans come in and share their stories and I have most of them on tape. It's absolutely amazing in two ways. Number one, the students get a chance to hear from, for the most part, very elderly people, and most of them, and this is not a slam against anybody. I think that we all fall in this category. Many times the elderly are pushed aside, and not that they're being rude, but they're just kind of forgotten. That's the way a lot of my World War II vets felt, that people had forgotten the sacrifice that they had made when they were young people. So, when they come in my classroom, my students hear their stories and they get a greater appreciation for the sacrifices that these elderly men and women ... I've had many women come in and speak too. They get an appreciation for that, but also, it works the other way. These elderly men and women get to see this younger generation, and unfortunately, most elderly people, all they hear about the younger generation is negative, but they get a chance to see these incredible students that show respect and they come up and thank them for their service. They thank them for coming up and sharing that. So, a lot of stereotypes are shattered in both areas and so it's really neat to be able to see that, but also really neat to be able to be numbered among their friends as well. Over the years, I've become very good friends with almost all of my speakers, and that makes it very painful too. I've attended a lot of funerals, and it's very painful to see. This greatest generation, we're losing them at well over a thousand a day.

Derek Smith:

Wow.

Brad Livingstone:

It's very difficult to find World War II vets. Dave Campbell, who is a legend in Texas. He's a World War II vet. A lot of people don't know that. He's been in my Vanguard classroom many times since we've been back to share his story, and his story is incredible. It's absolutely ... he's a decorated war hero, World War II. Not very many people know that, but he has an incredible story.

Derek Smith:

What elements of those stories, be they his or others, most seem to capture the imagination of the young people in your classes?

Brad Livingstone:

Well ... and everybody has a different story and literally, no story is the same. Now, where they fought might be similar, but how they experienced it and especially the aftermath of it. Every veteran's story is different. I think that's what makes it fascinating as well, but I think, as far as the one thing that permeates out of all of these stories, especially from my students' perspective, is that they're thinking. I have to remind them too, that they're watching these 90 plus year old men and women now, because you have to be at least 90 years old to have served in World War II. They're looking at these elderly people talking about things that they did when they were my students age, or maybe a year or two older, and that part blows my students' minds is that, "Oh my gosh, my biggest ... " I had one student that said, "My biggest concern is who I'm going to take to the prom this spring and their biggest concern was if they're going to survive this battle in Normandy, France." So it puts things in perspective, as far as what this greatest generation had to face compared to what we're facing today.

Derek Smith:

You mentioned, Brad, that there are fewer and fewer World War II veterans around to share their stories. In what ways have you shifted or expanded your focus so that students can continue to hear from veterans?

Brad Livingstone:

Well, one of the things I'm very thankful I did was I started videotaping these vets, so even though they may be gone ... and I would say probably 95% or more of my veterans that I've had come in my classroom over the decades are gone, but I've been able to videotape them so I can take the bits and pieces. I had all of that video [inaudible] digitized over the past year. So I was able to take snippets from incredible things that some of the vets have said. One of the greatest Q and A sessions that I've ever witnessed out of any of my veterans came from a Pearl Harbor veteran, whose name is ... and he's a Baylor. He's a Baylor person, Dr. Tom Parrish, who was on the USS Vessel. One of my students ... and I got this on tape. One of my students asked him, what does he remember most about Pearl Harbor? Dr. Parrish spoke for about 14 minutes of what he remembers most. Dr. Parrish is brilliant man, very articulate. For that 14 and a half minutes, he shared with my students in my class what he remembers most about Pearl Harbor. One of the greatest things I've ever witnessed from a firsthand account from what somebody has experienced. I also had somebody, Vaughn Stone was his name. In California, he passed away last year, but he was on the first wave at Omaha Beach, and he talked about what it was like, right?

Derek Smith:

Brad, what do you hope that your students, or really any students of history, experience? What are your hopes for what people take away from the study of history of our country and our world?

Brad Livingstone:

If anything, and I hear this so, so often, and I understand why, but I also tell them, when I hear this ... I hear from so many, especially young people, "Oh, I hate history." From adults, especially parents, they'll tell me, "You know, when I was young, I hated history, but now I really like it." I think the difference is when you realize history is about stories. It's not just about dates or reigns or emperors or things ... those things are important, or dividing lines or territorial lines. It's about people's stories. When you understand that that's what history really is and you start studying the people, that's what makes it fascinating because you'll quickly understand that most of the people who were put on a pedestal or achieve greatness were normal individuals that just happen to be at the right place or the wrong place at the right or wrong time. So, when you start understanding that it's about stories, and you also understand that nobody's perfect. There's only one person who's been perfect this side of heaven, and that's Jesus. All the rest of us have issues. All the rest of us have sinned. All the rest of us have done things that we're not proud of, and that we wish we hadn't have done. So, when you really study history, you realize that even the heroes are in ... they're not infallible. They have foibles and warps. When you find that out, it actually, to me, it gives me hope, to realize that you don't have to be perfect in order to do something that's positive and effective for your country, for your family, for yourself.

Derek Smith:

That's great. I wish I could take your class. Your passion for your subject comes through. I imagine I'm not the only one listening to this who feels that way, and that's a good reminder, especially as we head into this 4th of July weekend, the sacrifices that were made so that we can enjoy it. Well, we are out of time here on the program. Brad, I really appreciate you sharing with us today. I've learned a lot. Really well glad you came on. Thanks so much for joining us on the show today.

Brad Livingstone:

You bet, Derek. It's been a pleasure to visit with you. Have a great rest of your day.

Derek Smith:

You as well. Thank you very much. Brad Livingstone, the first gent of Baylor University, our guest today here on Baylor Connections. I'm Derek Smith. A reminder, you can hear this and other programs online at baylor.edu/connections. Thanks for joining us here on Baylor Connections.