Transcript

Derek Smith:

Hello and welcome to Baylor Connections, a conversation series with the people shaping our future. Each week, we go in depth with Baylor leaders, professors and more, discussing important topics in higher education, research and student life. I'm Derek Smith, and our guest today is Dr. Sara Perry. Dr. Perry was recently quoted in the New York Times about her research on remote work, particularly relevant now, as many people working from home as we deal with the impact of COVID-19 Dr. Perry is an assistant professor of management at Baylor's Hankamer School of Business. She joined the Hankamer faculty in 2014, and has maintained an active research schedule in addition to teaching, and she consults with organizations on various human resources and leadership topics. We're going to dive into her 2018 research on remote work and it received widespread attention then, but even more so now, obviously, as many people are beginning to grapple with what could be a reality here for a while. Dr. Sara Perry, thanks so much for joining us. We appreciate your time today.

Sara Perry:

Thank you for having me.

Derek Smith:

Well, obviously changes come about very quickly as the US is taking steps to prepare to flatten the curve as the response to COVID-19 accelerates. From the standpoint of your discipline as a professor in management, what are some of the questions that immediately began to come to mind for you?

Sara Perry:

I think one of the things is that a lot of people have said for a long time that they would love to work remotely and here we are. Here's your chance. That's one thing that I also think that many of us are very unprepared to work at home. So it's going to be a learning curve, and leaders, it's going to be a huge learning curve for leaders who haven't managed remote teams. We really have to think about... all of us have a lot of demands being placed on us right now in addition to work, so we just need to think about the big picture as organizations try to roll this out, and really keep employee wellbeing as the number one consideration.

Derek Smith:

Over the course of the program, we'll ask you about some different aspects of this, including that leadership standpoint for people who lead their organization. Parents are going to have a lot of questions, because in many cases their children are going to be home. So we'll dive into that. But I want to ask you, you're getting a chance to really put this into practice yourself right now. Many people may have seen that Baylor will be teaching online now through the end of the semester, so it's not going to be students physically on campus. What are the steps, as we talk here, the second week of spring break here at Baylor now, what are some of those steps like for you?

Sara Perry:

Originally, just the two weeks didn't seem like that big of a deal. We could adjust. A lot of Baylor professors have a lot of interaction in our classroom. That's one of the things that we really try to do well, is have active learning. That looks completely different online. In my department, we had a meeting yesterday actually, a Zoom meeting, where we were virtual, many of us, and were trying to just brainstorm ways and support each other. I've seen that across the university, being very supportive of each other as we try to up-skill and try to do this well. But what we're trying to figure out how to do is number one, take care of the students. Number two, adjust our learning outcomes to probably the simplest possible, what can we do and still accomplish the most important learning outcomes in every class. We are not going to be able to do everything we had planned, so in some cases we have to scrap our plans and really re-envision our class for the last half of the semester. That's interesting. So many of us have surveyed our students as well, to figure out where they are psychologically, physically, and actually where they're planning to be for the last half of the semester. We just have to have a lot of grace for them and for ourselves, and figure out how to navigate this. But one thing is sure. We will learn something that will improve our teaching in the future. Whatever we figure out how to do online can definitely enhance what we do in the classroom in the future, and I think that's true for remote work in general. We're going to learn a lot of things about remote work in organizations across the board.

Derek Smith:

Some parallels between what we're grappling with here. You as a professor, and organizations as well. Different disciplines.

Sara Perry:

Yeah, a lot of parallels.

Derek Smith:

Let's dive into your 2018 remote work research, and talk about how we can apply it even more so to now. Could you just give us a little overview of that from about two years ago?

Sara Perry:

Yes. So in that study we looked at strain, which, in that case we studied exhaustion, dissatisfaction, disengagement as forms of strain. We looked at remote work as a stressor potentially, as a double edged sword, was kind of how we talked about it. We looked at the needs that are met that employees need to have met, specifically autonomy and relatedness, interaction with each other. What we found was, in general as remote work increases, as long as people have autonomy, which is the discretion to make decisions and figure out how to go about their day and how to do their tasks, then people did really well with remote work. But, there was one group of people, people that had lower emotional stability, that really suffered. The more autonomy they had, actually the worst they did, in terms of as they were working remotely. So there's this group of people that tends to ride that emotional roller coaster, that really feels the emotions of everything that happens. They feel that more deeply, and they may not do as well with complete autonomy. So that's something leaders are going to have to think about in this case as well.

Derek Smith:

Do we underestimate, because I think a lot of us like the thought of, "Oh, I'll go work at a coffee shop or work from home." When I'm on the road it's like, "Get work done." What are some of the things that we probably under-appreciate about the physical work presence?

Sara Perry:

I don't know if I'm going to answer this exactly, so redirect if needed, but I think a lot of us really value the variety, those of us that can work remotely in general. I know I like a change of scenery, so for me to be stuck working at home for the next eight weeks or more is going to be a big change, even though I'm used to working remotely. That physical environment, if people are around you, you just might even feel a sense of connection to them even if you don't even talk to them. That might even go for at work too, when you aren't always talking to your coworkers, but you at least have that presence, and we're going to be missing that in the coming weeks as we all work from home specifically. But we also have a national check on each other when we have some type of physical presence. We might not know what's going on with everyone all the time, but at least if we can see their face, we can kind of keep some gauge on each other and have some conversation. That's going to have to be more proactive now, as we're all virtual.

Derek Smith:

Obviously modern technology makes some of that easier. Like you said, Zoom meetings or programs like Slack or Microsoft Team make that a little bit easier, but so more proactive.

Sara Perry:

Yes. We'll just have to be more proactive about how we use them in a way that we can still be productive. We don't want to have meetings for the sake of meetings. Then in this case, we might have to have some interaction for the sake of connection, because that is one of the biggest concerns in the remote work literature is isolation, and now those of us who have families at home might not feel isolated from people in general, but we might feel isolated from our professional lives and identity, and so having some proactive connection, all of us need that, whether we have people in our houses with us or not, we need to maintain that in some way.

Derek Smith:

Let's talk about some ways that people and individuals can approach this. We'll start at a higher level and then hone in. A lot of people either just got the news or will be soon that you're going to be working from home for a while. What are some of the questions that we should begin asking ourselves, and is there sort of a mental, a beginning checklist that we should start off with?

Sara Perry:

Yes, and the research has addressed this pretty well. We have some good empirical evidence of things that work. The first thing is boundaries. Of any remote workers you talk to, this is one of the number one things they say. We have to have boundaries in terms of, if it's possible, physical boundaries. So if you have a separate working space, especially if you can close the door to focus, that is ideal. If you can't do that, then setting up different workspaces around your home, that are well defined and that you can sort of put them away at the end of the day, that will help you just maintain a balance in terms of your family and your work. Now if you have kids in the mix as well, then I think we need to set up a workstation for them as well. It can be the kitchen table, the bar. Some people even talk about making a standing desk with books and other things, to be able to move your position throughout the day so you can rotate around, sharing the different workspaces. But that's number one. Number two type of boundary is time. We aren't going to have clear boundaries of time. We're going to have to make them. The best thing to do is to start with a schedule similar to what you would already be doing if you went to work. So try to stick to that same schedule, and you're going to find the transition easier that way. Don't start sleeping in and doing things completely differently because it'll just make the adjustment a lot harder. But one of the things about time is you do need to turn it off at the end of the day, just to maintain your own wellbeing, so you have to shut it off because no one's going to shut it off for you. Pick a way that you're going to do that, whether it's to put your stuff away, or to set a time, or something that kind of lets you do that. Some people say taking some sort of transition time that would replace what your commute would have done, so a lot of times people will call someone on their commute home, or maybe listen to a podcast, or maybe go exercise by just walking around the neighborhood, something to transition, decompress, and then you really need that time in the evening or whenever your work turns off to recover. We need to make sure we have that.

Derek Smith:

This is Baylor Connections. We are visiting with Dr. Sara Perry, assistant professor of management in Baylor's Hankamer School of Business. Another area that people could maybe evaluate a little bit is their own personal readiness. Your research from 2018 focused, as you mentioned, a lot on on different types of people and how they approach it. With this being a reality, are there ways people can sort of self assess, and look for some potential areas that they could have a strength? There may be some potential pitfalls as well.

Sara Perry:

Yes, I think so. I think for that particular study, the question I often ask people is, how much do you ride that roller coaster of emotion? That's one just gut check for, how much am I going to feel this stressful situation to my bones, and what do I need to do to protect myself? We often talk about this in terms of resources and demands. So another question you can ask is, what are the resources at my disposal? What are my strengths? Where do I really thrive? What are the conditions that allow me to thrive? Let me try to set that up for myself here in this situation, and then what kind of resources can I secure by reaching out to others? That might be just taking a little bit from the emergency preparedness literature, talking about communication at the beginning of the end of the day, kind of the situational reports people do when something stressful is going on. If you need more interaction, then communicate that and make it happen. Set up times to actually connect with people, and then also figuring out what technology you need to do your work, and securing that as soon as you can. I know there's a shortage on things like webcams and other remote technology. If you didn't already have it, you might not be able to get it, but try to figure out how you can work around it, and if there's any online training you can do to get up to speed, go ahead and do that in these early days when you might not be able to focus as much on other tasks.

Derek Smith:

What about dealing with distractions, because in the home environment, there's going to be plenty of distractions there that maybe we don't have in our work environment, whether it's just the fact that the TV's right there and there's a lot of news happening right now, or children as we mentioned, which we'll get more into in a little bit, or pets, or what have you. What are some ways, whether it's breaks or otherwise, that people can try to alleviate the impact of that a little bit?

Sara Perry:

Some people will say that you should turn off all your notifications for periods of time. One way to do this without having to go to that extent is, put your cell phone or other things that distract you in a different room. I know some people need their phone to stay in contact, but what's feasible for you in terms of removing the distractors from your physical, immediate work environment? Another thing that really can help is to block your time. AA lot of us will start the day with a to do list, but if you're at home, it can really help you to put it into blocks of time so that then you know when you're going to take a break, or at what point do you... What I guess progress do you need to make until you take a break, whether it's time or progress. If you're going to have kids around, it's a good idea to do that as well, because you can block time when you're both going to be working, and then take a break and do something away from your desk during that time. It will help you stay focused when you are at your desk. If you get up, move away from wherever you're working, do something else, move for a while, go outside. I'm finding personally that social media, it's going to be 24/7, and we're going to have to shut it off for ourselves, because we could just scroll all day. There's part of us that wants to be in the loop and know what's going on, so we're going to have a lot of self discipline. That's true for remote work anytime. In this particular case, we're going to have to really have self-discipline and set those boundaries and structures up very proactively.

Derek Smith:

You mentioned breaks. I know there's been research that talks about effective breaks and how to structure those. I know in study skills, sometimes they talk about students take a little walk, or 50-10, 50-10 in terms of the hour.

Sara Perry:

Yeah, the 50-10 model.

Derek Smith:

Do you have any thoughts on that?

Sara Perry:

I personally, I like to have about an hour, at least. I'm thinking with my kids home, I might not get that luxury, because about every 30 minutes they're probably ready for another thing. But the breaks research, some of my colleagues, Dr. Emily Hunter and Cindy Wu have studied the optimal type of breaks, and they found that as long as you're doing a break in the middle the morning, that's really your key break, and it'll set you up for the rest of the day. Now you need other breaks along the way, but about the middle of your morning, walk away from your computer, do something that you enjoy, that you choose, and that will help preserve your focus and attention and resources for the rest of the day. But I do think it's important to get up and move away from your screen and give yourself a break in that way. A real physical break.

Derek Smith:

Visiting with Dr. Sara Perry. Let's talk about children, because obviously there's a lot they're grappling with right now just as we all are, and they're going to be in that home environment. We don't know how long the school districts are going to be closed, but we could anticipate it being a decent amount of time. What advice do you have for working parents and just the unique considerations they are going to be taking in?

Sara Perry:

I think one of the things is we have to set up expectations appropriately. My normal mode of operation is I expect more from myself than I ever accomplished, and I'm not going to be able to do that here. I think I need to lower my expectations, and I think everyone really needs to lower their expectations to some extent, about what you're going to accomplish. I know I'm not going to teach my kids everything their teachers would have taught them this year, if they end up being home the rest of the semester, but I have to do something for their sake. I'm thinking really clear structure, taking some lessons from our homeschool friends about how they structure their day, although I've noticed that my kids so far and friends I've talked to, they really get excited about reconstructing their own schedule from school at home. So let them have some input about what their day should look like, and then try to work your schedule in tandem or in parallel with that. Those blocks of time can really help with, for this 30 minutes or this hour, we're all going to work on this. So go. Let's all go to our separate stations and do that and then meet and then redirect. We know it's possible because a lot of schools have a model where students are really self-directed. You give them direction and then they go do it. But also we need to enjoy the time that we have with them, and be grateful for that, and practice gratitude daily as we try to manage all of this.

Derek Smith:

What about balancing... I think I've seen, going around on the internet lately, remember that interview a couple of years ago where the gentleman was doing a national security interview on the BBC from his home, and his daughter came prancing in? That's probably going to be a reality for a lot of people.

Sara Perry:

Yes, it will.

Derek Smith:

Any thoughts on balancing that work aspect, and maybe even more specifically from the employer side, that employer expectation side?

Sara Perry:

I actually do have a few thoughts on that. I think number one is, it might seem elementary, but employers and teams and leaders may need to have an explicit conversation about video call etiquette, just to get it out there, especially for people that don't do a lot of video calls usually, or calls in general. Try to have a space that you aren't going to have a lot of interruption, things like that. Mute your side whenever you aren't talking, things like that. Simple video call etiquette, but we also have to practice a lot of grace, so that's going to happen. We know all of us are home with our kids. Those of us that have kids have to figure out how to deal with that. If we have a partner who can keep them occupied, that video is funny because the mom came rushing in trying to get him out, but things like that are going to happen. I did a call last night, and one of the guests on the show was saying, "Okay. My kids and my dog are locked in a closet," Excuse me, "Until the end of the call." We can't do that practicality, but we can try to occupy them. Let the kids know, "Okay, I can't be interrupted for the next however long, and so this is what you're going to be doing and we'll go from there."

Derek Smith:

Visiting with Dr. Sara Perry, and as we head into the final few minutes of the show, we talked about that physical space a little bit earlier. Some people do have an office, some don't, but in terms of setting that up for as much success as possible, are there any tips you would give people in terms of making the most of what they have?

Sara Perry:

Yeah, I think thinking about your space a little bit differently. Allocating the space maybe, however you can set up those workstations, I mentioned, but really think about where can you focus, and where can you sit that has some kind of pleasant environment for you. So whether it's looking out of the window, or a well lit room, or whatever you can do that makes you kind of experience more positive emotion, this is going to help you overall. You might also think about the environment. Does music help? There's a lot of online... even on YouTube, you can find instrumental music for focus and studying, and maybe that's something you want to pipe through your house to help everyone focus. Or, if you're not someone who can work with noise, having different zones where you can play music here and you can't hear. The separate boundaries can be really helpful if you can set them up in some way. Maybe there's an outside station where you can sit as well, and enjoy when the weather's nice, sit out there. I think it will help if we have some of these defined spaces, and we can try to be creative with it so we can kind of move around.

Derek Smith:

Well Dr. Sara Perry, we never would have imagined, and we knew your work was relevant when you did it in 2018, because more people were going to that. But obviously, now that it's a reality for most all of us at some point, it really has taken hold of a lot of people's attention. Do you have any final thoughts? Any final tips or thoughts as we wind down?

Sara Perry:

I guess I just want to say everyone should really try to be realistic, be clear with expectations, but also try to be realistic about what's actually going to happen over the next several weeks. A lot of people are just under... All of us are under a lot of stress, more stress than normal, and we can only do so much, so we just have to have realistic expectations, try to continue to check in on our coworkers, our teammates. Try to be proactive about, maybe we don't have a real reason for a video call, but let's do it just to check in for 30 minutes at the end of the day or in the middle of the day or whatever it is, and just try to stay connected. Not through social media, necessarily, but one-on-one, connected with people that really sort of help fill us up, and do those things intentionally that can keep us going, in light of everything that we're facing, and just stay flexible. One additional thought for leaders is, really try to have flexibility and allow your employees to figure it out, how it works for them, so we can't micromanage from afar. We can check in, make sure everyone has resources, make sure people are doing okay. Some people need a little more of that than others, but we really need to just adapt and be flexible and let people figure out what works best for them, without trying to manage from afar too closely.

Derek Smith:

Well, that's great advice on all fronts, and if people would like to see more of your research, probably the easiest thing to do, your name is spelled S-A-R-A, and then Perry, P-E-R-R-Y. So if you just Google Sara Perry remote work, Sara Perry New York times. I checked that. You can find a whole plethora of information on your research.

Sara Perry:

That's right, and we're actually recruiting for a study right now that, if anyone is a remote worker that has been working remotely for a while, and that URL also will direct to other things that we've put out there that will help. That URL is tinyurl.com/baylorremoteworkstudy. So if anyone wants to participate in the study, we would love to have you. Go to that link and find out more information.

Derek Smith:

That sounds good. Well, thank you very much. Appreciate your time today.

Sara Perry:

Thank you very much.

Derek Smith:

Dr. Sara Perry, assistant professor of management in Baylor's Hankamer School of Business. I'm Derek Smith. Reminder, you can hear this and other programs online. Baylor.edu/connections. Thanks for joining us here on Baylor Connections.